“The Church is Heaven on earth where the Celestial God lives and prevails”
Patriarch Germain
(633-733 AD)
After the sad month of May 1453, Constantinople is no longer the “city guarded by God”, but “Istanbul” (in-the-city) as named by the Turks; a continuation of a different essence. The Turkish Sultan recognized in Patriarch Gennadios, enthroned in Byzantine grandeur, the “Head of the Greek Nation”. His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomeos is the direct descendant to this same throne which for all Greeks symbolizes the historic presence of the genos (race) of the Hellenes on the holy soil of New Rome.
His Holiness Patriarch Batholomeos accepted to grant The Athenian an interview. No word can describe the humility of the person and the simplicity of the reception.
“Your Holiness, for the first time in many years, the Orthodox Churches of Europe gathered in Chalkidiki, Greece, in order to draw up an approach towards solving common difficulties facing the Orthodox Church after the dramatic changes in Eastern Europe and after Your ascendance to the throne of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. This gathering was in view to prepare the Holy Assembly (Synaxis) of the Orthodox Churches here in the Phanarion on Sunday of Orthodoxy, March 15. Might You tell us something about this Assembly?”
First of all, let me thank you for the interest you show in matters of Our Church. We need to have sound information of Our flock on Church matters as disinformation many times complicates things. Nothing is more useful therefore than a direct interview.
We have indeed planned a Holy Assembly of the Orthodox Churches on Sunday of Orthodoxy on March 15 during which all the 14 Heads of Our Church and Our Patriarchate as Head of all Our Churches will come together as a Panorthodox Family. We will meet next Thursday (March 12) in order to prepare our work. We will all together conduct Holy Service on that Sunday in the Patriarchal Church of Saint George during which We will announce a message to Our believers and the rest of the world.
The meeting at Chalkidiki was meant to prepare Our Church Holy Assembly. All the Orthodox Churches were represented and therefore worked together to prepare the order of the day. They drew up a first draft of the message which We, the Heads of the Church, shall announce.
This is a historical event for the Orthodox Church as it is the first time that something of this sort is organized. I must acknowledge that many other Heads of Our Church such as the Patiarchs of Jerusalem, Moscow and Serbia have in the past showed interest in having a Holy Assembly. We, as Head of Our Church, have decided to implement this consensus. We hope that this historic Holy Assembly will contribute in essence to join further Our Fraternal Orthodox Churches for the best of Our flock and all the Christian world. Our Holy Assembly will also be a contribution for peace, understanding and good accord between the peoples of the world. Each Patriarch represents millions of believers to whom he will take Our message of unity and cooperation in an ever-changing world moving towards the 21st century. The hopes and expectations of the world emanate from the rapid and unforeseen changes which have taken place the last two to three years. Unfortunately, there still are many war zones, though the Cold War is over. Man should firstly and mainly try to supersede suspicion in order to live in peace and love with his neighbor, for God has created this world for man to live in peace and concord with his fellow man.
As you are a writer on environmental issues, Mr Anastasiades, I should say to you that Our Holy Assembly will also discuss this important and ecumenical problem to consider the responsibility of the Church. As you know, the Ecumenical Patriarch Dimitrios, my predecessor, had proclaimed the first of September each year as day of prayer and service for the protection of the environment. A hymnographer from Mount Athos, who unfortunately died recently, has written a hymnography for the protection of the environment which is chanted every first of September. The Ecumenical Patriarchate is well aware of the problems of the modern world, and We are not just for the “Kyrie Eleison” as many seem to believe unjustly. We are a part of this world; Christ said to His disciples that they have to be part of this world but not from it. In other words, We should not have the conviction of this world but the conviction of the Church, living and acting in this world as Christians, trying to change this world for the beter.
We pray that all will go well and that you will soon get the announcement of Our Holy Assembly which We hope you will publish if you chose to and comment discreetly or extensively as a man of letters for We believe in the liberty of the intellect. Everyone will draw his own conclusion.
Our aim is to reveal a united and indivisible Orthodox Church which has one position and one mind. Despite the autocephalous character of Our Churches, We have one wish and that is to cooperate with Our fellow Christians with whom We unfortunately are still divided. We also would like to work together with all people of good faith in view to prepare humanity for a better world in the third millennium after Christ.
“You have mentioned that You wish to cooperate with other Christian Churches, Your Holiness. However, there seem to be considerable difficulties in terms of relations with the Catholic Church because of the problems caused by the Uniates in certain countries, in the Ukraine in particular. How can these problems be solved?”
In the past, We had very good relations with the Church of Rome which is a great Church in number and spiritual strength. This started during the reign of Pope John XXIII and Our Patriarch Athenagoras and was continued by Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Dimitrios. This Dialogue of Love, as it is called and which must continue, existed alongside the theological Dialogue of the Truth in order to bridge theological differences between Us. The Dialogue of Truth was initiated in 1980 at Patmos and Rhodes. For ten years, all went very well. The first black clouds showed up just after the fall of Communism, when all faiths acquired the liberty to exist. This, of course, includes the Uniates who are Catholics of an Eastern Church tradition and who live in the Ukraine, Transylvania, Czechoslovakia and elsewhere. They moved out of the dark, just like the Orthodox, and demanded back their establishments and Churches that were once theirs. The means they have used to get back their former property were not very normal as violent methods were used. There were cases of Orthodox Church Liturgy interruption in order to occupy the Church during Holy Service; there was open conflict and bloodshed. At the same time, the Pope in the Vatican, in open support to the Uniates who spiritually belong to the Catholic Church, appointed new bishops and sent representatives from Rome. According to the complaints of the Russian Orthodox Church, the Vatican became very active and started sending representatives there where there were few or no Catholics at all. This was interpreted by the Orthodox as an expansionist policy of the Vatican and an attempt to penetrate in a region of the world which is traditionally Orthodox in order to proselytize new believers. It is well known that the Catholic Church has the means for this purpose, means which the Orthodox do not possess despite the acquired liberty in these countries.
This is how We came to tenseness in relations, mainly because of the revival and the reactivation of the Uniates. We came to the point of limiting the theoretical dialogue which had a certain thematology until We sort out the question of the Uniates and outright proselytism. We can continue Our dialogue when We reconcile Our differences, of course.
Next week, We shall be discussing Our relations with Rome. We hope and pray that We would not have to stop Our dialogue and break Our relations, for We personally believe that difficulties can only be sorted out through dialogue, when the two counterparts are sitting face to face and are trying to find a solution of common accord. Mark the Noble, who is considered to be the champion of Orthodoxy because he refused to sign the union of the Church during the Synod of Florence [Council of 1439], said that if the counterparts stand apart the gap grows; if, however, We stand close We will find out that the gap will draw back and differences could be bridged. This is the point of view of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and We believe that only through dialogue will Rome understand the faults it has made. Then, Our dialogue can continue ‘for the good of Our faith.
“Besides the problems with the Uniates, some difficulties seem to exist with the Church of Skopje, at least according to the Church of Greece. How would You comment oiz this, Your Holiness?”
Allow me not to comment here as this is a political issue and the Ecumenical Patriarchate, as a matter of principle, does not interfere. Our role is to consider matters of spiritual, religious and even social matters only.
“The Ecumenical Patriarchate has initiated a dialogue with the Turkish State in order to improve relations with Ankara and reopen the Theological School of Chalki. Can You tell us something more about this delicate issue, Your Holiness?”
After my election to this throne and, as is usual in this case, I visited Ankara in order to meet the political government of our country. I visited our leaders both as Patriarch and as a Greek of Turkish citizenship. I found great kindness and comprehension for the problems facing Our minority and Our Church. We asked to acquire the possibility to reopen the School of Chalki which, as you know, Mr Anastasiades, is a burning issue as far as We are concerned. Every ecumenical establishment needs to have an institution where the new generation of Our clergy could be trained in order to constitute the cadres of Our Church. We urgently need an educational institution for Our theologians.
Unfortunately, the School of Chalki, a famous theological centre, closed down 21 years ago. This School has produced some of the best theologians of the Orthodox Church. We believe that the reopening of the School of Chalki, which . first opened in 1844, will be beneficial not only for the Ecumenical Patriarchate but also for Turkey on the territory of which this will have to take place. We feel that the present good relations between the Ecumenical Patriarchate and Ankara will continue, and that there will be no setbacks in the future. We are a very old Institution which does not interfere in political matters as We have already mentioned.
Turkey is aware of the fact that an old Christian spiritual Institution as Ours, existing on its territory, is a matter of great importance that has to be assisted. The survival of a similar institution in Iran or Saudi Arabia would be very difficult, but that does not mean that We have never had problems. Quite to the contrary, We had great problems in the past, the proof of which is that the greater part of Our flock had to leave this country. We are about 5000 people today, but fortunately We have strong links with many parts of the world. We hope that our relations with the Turkish State, on the territory of which We are established, will continue to be good. On the other hand, international relations require an improvement of relations.
Mr Demirel said to Us a few weeks ago that he would like to behave impeccably towards Our minority, not .only because this is the way, as he said, “our conscience dictates us, but also because it is in the best interest of Turkey to behave well and fairly towards all the minorities living in the country.” This says it all. We thank you again for the interest you have shown Our Church and hope we will meet again soon.
Michael Anastasiades in the Phanarion, Constantinople, March 6, 1992.
